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No independence movement but locals want looser control by Moscow and stronger association with EU
What is to become of the enclave of Kaliningrad, Russian Federation territory cut off from Mother Russia and sandwiched between Lithuania and Poland, soon to become an island within the European Union?
What do the residents want? According to PRAVDA.Ru contacts within the territory, there are a few hardliners who would favor independence from Moscow, setting up a new state within the European Union. This stance, however, does not reflect the general line of thinking within Kaliningrad, which favors looser control by Moscow with more association with the EU but not total integration and certainly not independence.
The looser control by Moscow is seen as a means of at least gaining some advantages from being an island on the EU territory.
Those who support the change of name from Kaliningrad to Konigsberg, its former name, quote the change from Leningrad to St. Petersburg. However, the move to change the name is evidence of the anti-Moscow sentiment in this part of Russia. Most people in Kaliningrad would agree that Moscow does not understand the feelings of the majority of people within this enclave, inhabited by ethnic Russians but with all the possibilities and infra-structures to become a separate state.
Timofei BYELO
PRAVDA.Ru
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Free Kenigsberg!-мнения на Английском.
#1
Рустам Васильев 
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Отправлено 05 Август 2008 - 17:47
#2
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Отправлено 05 Август 2008 - 17:54
Samland (5.8.2008, 17:48) писал:
Почему не по русски? 
Samland, ну оставь хоть одну тему на Английском. Лень переводить, нет времени на это. Что вы российской газете "Правда" не доверяете?
Ничего крамольного, обязуюсь держать тему в рамках. Буду в эту тему ещё добавлять разные высказывания иностранных СМИ и политиков о наших проблемах, естественно на Английском, так сказать из первых рук.
#3
Рустам Васильев
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Отправлено 05 Август 2008 - 18:27
А вот довольно интересный анализ ситуации в России в целом, приведу лишь то что касается нашего региона.
http://www.stratfor.com/analysis/russia_wh...ns_independence
Russia: Why Moscow Will Not Recognize Georgian Regions' Independence
Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov hinted Feb. 15 that Moscow would recognize the Georgian separatist regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia if Serbia’s breakaway Kosovo province declares independence. However, Russia has too many potential breakaway regions of its own to start supporting such independence movements in its periphery.
The Baltic enclave of Kaliningrad is regularly ignored in planning by Moscow. Now that its neighbors Lithuania and Poland have joined both the EU and NATO, Kaliningrad resentment is beginning to rise. Kaliningrad used to be known as Konigsberg and was a core portion of German Prussia.
http://www.stratfor.com/analysis/russia_wh...ns_independence
Russia: Why Moscow Will Not Recognize Georgian Regions' Independence
Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov hinted Feb. 15 that Moscow would recognize the Georgian separatist regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia if Serbia’s breakaway Kosovo province declares independence. However, Russia has too many potential breakaway regions of its own to start supporting such independence movements in its periphery.
The Baltic enclave of Kaliningrad is regularly ignored in planning by Moscow. Now that its neighbors Lithuania and Poland have joined both the EU and NATO, Kaliningrad resentment is beginning to rise. Kaliningrad used to be known as Konigsberg and was a core portion of German Prussia.
#4
samurai
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Отправлено 05 Август 2008 - 18:36
Рустам Васильев (5.8.2008, 18:54) писал:
Что вы российской газете "Правда" не доверяете? и
Бывает газета "Правда" и просто правда. Правда у каждого может быть своя, но истина - одна.
Я желаю счастья вам !!!
#5
Рустам Васильев
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Отправлено 05 Август 2008 - 18:47
samurai (5.8.2008, 18:36) писал:
Бывает газета "Правда" и просто правда. Правда у каждого может быть своя, но истина - одна.
В "Правде" нет известий, а в "Известиях" нет правды.
Очень жаль, что калининградские СМИ стали жить по кремлёвским понятиям.
#6
samurai
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Отправлено 05 Август 2008 - 19:03
Рустам Васильев (5.8.2008, 19:47) писал:
В "Правде" нет известий, а в "Известиях" нет правды. Очень жаль, что калининградские СМИ стали жить по кремлёвским понятиям.
Очень жаль, что калининградские СМИ стали жить по кремлёвским понятиям.Из всех СМИ больше всего правды в "Новостях спорта" и ...........www.klopse.ru
Я желаю счастья вам !!!
#7
Рустам Васильев
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Отправлено 05 Август 2008 - 19:10
Очень интересная статья на мой взгляд в Лос-Анжелес Таймс
Особенно хочется выделить последний абзац.
http://articles.lati...orld/fg-kalin23
The Past, and the West, Beckons to Kaliningrad
By John Daniszewski
August 23, 2002 in print edition A-5
Sitting at a terrace cafe in a district of sturdy old German houses, one could imagine oneself thrust back in time to old Prussia. It is an apt setting for Yuri Nushtayev, one of the backers of a drive to readopt this city’s original German name, Koenigsberg.
The long-haired graphic designer has no German roots. Like almost all of the other 950,000 residents of the Kaliningrad region, he is ethnically and linguistically Russian.
But, as the 32-year-old earnestly explained to a visitor, many members of his generation are looking for a new future for this outpost of Russia nestled up against the Baltic that may soon find itself marooned inside the European Union. That future has a direction: west.
And first stop in that direction is ending the Soviet practice of denying the city’s past.
Leningrad has gone back to calling itself St. Petersburg. Sverdlovsk has reverted to Ekaterinburg. But, as the Kremlin sees it, Kaliningrad is never to become Koenigsberg again.
It’s just one example of Moscow’s policy toward Kaliningrad that drives people such as Nushtayev crazy.
Kaliningrad is a name that honors an early Bolshevik and close associate of Josef Stalin. But this former Prussian capital was known to knights, merchants, writers, musicians, philosophers and seafarers as Koenigsberg for 700 years.
But to hear the response of federal authorities–”Madness!” is typical–it is as if Nushtayev and his friends seek to undo the Russian victory of World War II.
Suddenly, 57 years after being turned over to Stalin at Potsdam, and 11 years after it ceased being a closed Soviet district, Kaliningrad appears to be on everyone’s agenda. That’s because of the likely admission of Poland and Lithuania, its immediate neighbors, to the EU next year–which would make Kaliningrad a Russian island inside the EU’s borders.
Members of the State Duma, Russia’s lower house of parliament, fear that the rest of Europe will try to peel Kaliningrad away from Russia. European diplomats have their worries too, wrestling with how to protect the EU from smuggling and illegal migrants from the Russian enclave. Journalists and academics are intrigued by the question of how this little sliver of Russia, slightly larger than Connecticut, will fare within the united Europe.
Kaliningrad is a historical and geographic anomaly. Eight hundred miles from Moscow, its location between Poland and Lithuania leaves it cut off from the rest of Russia by three international boundaries.
Back when the Soviet empire stretched from the Elbe River to Vladivostok, that didn’t matter much. But now that the rest of the empire has receded, Kaliningrad has been left behind, as it were, high and dry.
During the Cold War, Kaliningrad’s territory and year-round harbor offered a useful protrusion into Europe for the Soviet military. Strangers weren’t allowed in for secrecy reasons, turning a region that always had thrived on commerce into a sealed box and a mystery even to its immediate Eastern Bloc neighbors.
After the Soviet Union fell, Kaliningrad opened up and crime and sleaze poured in; the region became as well known for its petty smuggling of vodka and cigarettes, abundant prostitutes, narcotics and AIDS as it was for buried amber, a semiprecious petrified resin used in jewelry, and its few surviving German cultural monuments.
With Kaliningrad on course to be surrounded by the azure flag of the EU, the problem for residents is likely to be sorting out their place and their identity.
Kaliningraders live closer to 10 European capitals than they do to Moscow. Some would argue that this city is closer in spirit too.
Old German postcards show Koenigsberg as it was–bustling streets crowded with stately burgher homes and shops, steepled churches, streets lined with trees and the main square dominated by a Gothic royal castle.
Today’s Kaliningrad center is unrecognizable. With the exception of the majestic red-brick cathedral, everything was destroyed during or after the war. Now, in the center, one sees wide streets lined with boxy, nondescript, Soviet-built apartment blocks, squat rows of kiosks for shopping, and empty wind-swept spaces where cars park and refuse collects.
Yet some Old World charm has managed to survive–alleys of trees and green parks planted with flower beds, and, on the edges of this city and in the countryside, sturdy prewar houses whose steep red-tile roofs flare out at the eaves (and occasionally are crowned by a voluminous stork’s nest).
Mere proximity to Western European values has imbued people in Kaliningrad with a more cosmopolitan, tolerant and compromising attitude, people here say.
”If you wanted to sum it up, Kaliningraders are more civilized than the rest of Russia,” said Sergei Pasko, a leader of the Baltic Republican Party. Behind him hung the red-white-and-blue flag with a golden compass star that he hopes one day will become the banner of an autonomous ”Baltic Republic.”
It would be going too far to say that a large proportion of people in the region want independence. Even Pasko’s separatist party believes that there should be ”association” with Russia.
But there are abundant signs that people here–as in many of Russia’s 89 republics and regions–chafe at what they see as callous and arbitrary decision-making in Moscow that does not always take into account their interests.
”So far the situation with separatism is hypothetical,” said Soloman I. Ginsburg, a member of the regional parliament. But sentiment for independence could grow in 10 years if Kaliningrad under Russian governance does not manage to close the gap in living standards with its European neighbors, he predicted.
”Obtaining a Mercedes will be a stronger motivating factor than the wish to look at Russian birch trees,” he said.
The most pressing problem facing Russia and Kaliningrad is the EU’s insistence that Poland and Lithuania, starting next July, impose visa requirements for people entering their territory from Russia.
Russian officials seemed caught by surprise and reacted indignantly. In tones that made some feel that he was making Soviet-style threats, Russian President Vladimir V. Putin denounced the EU’s proposal and said it would be ”worse than the Cold War.”
He said Russia wouldn’t accept any situation in which someone from another country would determine whether a Russian citizen could travel from Russia proper to the Kaliningrad enclave. At first, Putin’s proposed solution was for sealed trains and/or a visa-free corridor across Lithuania and Poland to get around the problem.
But these proposals didn’t sit well with the EU. Now Russia seems to be asking the EU to adopt a very liberal no-visa-needed policy toward all Russians similar to the one the bloc has with Americans.
Last month, the sides began what is likely to be a drawn-out negotiating process in Brussels to find a compromise that protects the EU’s security while not–in the words of French President Jacques Chirac–”humiliating” Russia.
Visa worries are felt acutely these days in Kaliningrad. The EU policy would have ”very grave consequences economically,” said Alexander S. Karetsky, a lifelong resident and now spokesman for the regional governor, Vladimir Yegorev, who happens to be the ex-commander of the Russian Baltic Fleet.
To an American visitor, Karetsky asked, ”What if to travel from the main part of the United States to Alaska, you needed a visa from Canada? Wouldn’t that be ridiculous?”
Of course, even under the EU’s plan, people would still be able to travel freely to Russia by plane or ferry. But most people now go by car or bus. About two-thirds of Kaliningraders don’t even have passports, and to impose even a modest visa fee would be burdensome for people often earning less than $100 a month.
Even though the visa question is a difficult one, most people believe that Russia and the EU will eventually find a way to finesse the issue. For residents, it is vital, not so much because they need to travel back to Russia, but because their livelihood is linked to their Baltic Sea neighbors.
In other words, Kaliningrad is reverting to form.
Founded by crusading Teutonic knights who subdued (and virtually wiped out) the indigenous pagan tribes of the area, Koenigsberg in the Middle Ages was a member of the Hanseatic League, a federation of trading towns spread along the Baltic. Its port and its commerce brought riches to the city, making it one of the jewels of northeastern Europe.
In 1945, Koenigsberg and its surrounding area in what had been East Prussia was formally recognized by Allied leaders at Potsdam as belonging to the Soviet Union. The victorious Red Army was already there. Most of the German population had already fled or been killed, and the remnants would soon be roughly relocated to the Soviet occupation zone of Germany.
Nazi Germany was to be punished for its wartime aggression by losing East Prussia; Stalin decreed that Soviet citizens should move in and erase all memories of Prussia from this new Soviet territory.
Historic buildings, heavily damaged by the war, were torn down rather than restored. Streets and cities were renamed wholesale. In the countryside, collective farms supplanted baronial manors and feudal estates.
Yuri V. Kostyashof, a historian at Kaliningrad State University, says that Soviet authorities had an unofficial motto–”To erase the Prussian spirit from the land”–and that is why they were so avid to destroy anything that smacked of the city’s Germanic past.
Now he believes strongly that today’s Kaliningrad would benefit from an honest interpretation of its past and that the historical record of Koenigsberg would provide insights into today’s political discussions about the enclave’s future.
"Koenigsberg flourished only at times when it had good relations with its neighboring countries,” he said. ”The openness of the Kaliningrad region to the outer world is the main guarantor of its prosperity. That is what history teaches."
Особенно хочется выделить последний абзац.
http://articles.lati...orld/fg-kalin23
The Past, and the West, Beckons to Kaliningrad
By John Daniszewski
August 23, 2002 in print edition A-5
Sitting at a terrace cafe in a district of sturdy old German houses, one could imagine oneself thrust back in time to old Prussia. It is an apt setting for Yuri Nushtayev, one of the backers of a drive to readopt this city’s original German name, Koenigsberg.
The long-haired graphic designer has no German roots. Like almost all of the other 950,000 residents of the Kaliningrad region, he is ethnically and linguistically Russian.
But, as the 32-year-old earnestly explained to a visitor, many members of his generation are looking for a new future for this outpost of Russia nestled up against the Baltic that may soon find itself marooned inside the European Union. That future has a direction: west.
And first stop in that direction is ending the Soviet practice of denying the city’s past.
Leningrad has gone back to calling itself St. Petersburg. Sverdlovsk has reverted to Ekaterinburg. But, as the Kremlin sees it, Kaliningrad is never to become Koenigsberg again.
It’s just one example of Moscow’s policy toward Kaliningrad that drives people such as Nushtayev crazy.
Kaliningrad is a name that honors an early Bolshevik and close associate of Josef Stalin. But this former Prussian capital was known to knights, merchants, writers, musicians, philosophers and seafarers as Koenigsberg for 700 years.
But to hear the response of federal authorities–”Madness!” is typical–it is as if Nushtayev and his friends seek to undo the Russian victory of World War II.
Suddenly, 57 years after being turned over to Stalin at Potsdam, and 11 years after it ceased being a closed Soviet district, Kaliningrad appears to be on everyone’s agenda. That’s because of the likely admission of Poland and Lithuania, its immediate neighbors, to the EU next year–which would make Kaliningrad a Russian island inside the EU’s borders.
Members of the State Duma, Russia’s lower house of parliament, fear that the rest of Europe will try to peel Kaliningrad away from Russia. European diplomats have their worries too, wrestling with how to protect the EU from smuggling and illegal migrants from the Russian enclave. Journalists and academics are intrigued by the question of how this little sliver of Russia, slightly larger than Connecticut, will fare within the united Europe.
Kaliningrad is a historical and geographic anomaly. Eight hundred miles from Moscow, its location between Poland and Lithuania leaves it cut off from the rest of Russia by three international boundaries.
Back when the Soviet empire stretched from the Elbe River to Vladivostok, that didn’t matter much. But now that the rest of the empire has receded, Kaliningrad has been left behind, as it were, high and dry.
During the Cold War, Kaliningrad’s territory and year-round harbor offered a useful protrusion into Europe for the Soviet military. Strangers weren’t allowed in for secrecy reasons, turning a region that always had thrived on commerce into a sealed box and a mystery even to its immediate Eastern Bloc neighbors.
After the Soviet Union fell, Kaliningrad opened up and crime and sleaze poured in; the region became as well known for its petty smuggling of vodka and cigarettes, abundant prostitutes, narcotics and AIDS as it was for buried amber, a semiprecious petrified resin used in jewelry, and its few surviving German cultural monuments.
With Kaliningrad on course to be surrounded by the azure flag of the EU, the problem for residents is likely to be sorting out their place and their identity.
Kaliningraders live closer to 10 European capitals than they do to Moscow. Some would argue that this city is closer in spirit too.
Old German postcards show Koenigsberg as it was–bustling streets crowded with stately burgher homes and shops, steepled churches, streets lined with trees and the main square dominated by a Gothic royal castle.
Today’s Kaliningrad center is unrecognizable. With the exception of the majestic red-brick cathedral, everything was destroyed during or after the war. Now, in the center, one sees wide streets lined with boxy, nondescript, Soviet-built apartment blocks, squat rows of kiosks for shopping, and empty wind-swept spaces where cars park and refuse collects.
Yet some Old World charm has managed to survive–alleys of trees and green parks planted with flower beds, and, on the edges of this city and in the countryside, sturdy prewar houses whose steep red-tile roofs flare out at the eaves (and occasionally are crowned by a voluminous stork’s nest).
Mere proximity to Western European values has imbued people in Kaliningrad with a more cosmopolitan, tolerant and compromising attitude, people here say.
”If you wanted to sum it up, Kaliningraders are more civilized than the rest of Russia,” said Sergei Pasko, a leader of the Baltic Republican Party. Behind him hung the red-white-and-blue flag with a golden compass star that he hopes one day will become the banner of an autonomous ”Baltic Republic.”
It would be going too far to say that a large proportion of people in the region want independence. Even Pasko’s separatist party believes that there should be ”association” with Russia.
But there are abundant signs that people here–as in many of Russia’s 89 republics and regions–chafe at what they see as callous and arbitrary decision-making in Moscow that does not always take into account their interests.
”So far the situation with separatism is hypothetical,” said Soloman I. Ginsburg, a member of the regional parliament. But sentiment for independence could grow in 10 years if Kaliningrad under Russian governance does not manage to close the gap in living standards with its European neighbors, he predicted.
”Obtaining a Mercedes will be a stronger motivating factor than the wish to look at Russian birch trees,” he said.
The most pressing problem facing Russia and Kaliningrad is the EU’s insistence that Poland and Lithuania, starting next July, impose visa requirements for people entering their territory from Russia.
Russian officials seemed caught by surprise and reacted indignantly. In tones that made some feel that he was making Soviet-style threats, Russian President Vladimir V. Putin denounced the EU’s proposal and said it would be ”worse than the Cold War.”
He said Russia wouldn’t accept any situation in which someone from another country would determine whether a Russian citizen could travel from Russia proper to the Kaliningrad enclave. At first, Putin’s proposed solution was for sealed trains and/or a visa-free corridor across Lithuania and Poland to get around the problem.
But these proposals didn’t sit well with the EU. Now Russia seems to be asking the EU to adopt a very liberal no-visa-needed policy toward all Russians similar to the one the bloc has with Americans.
Last month, the sides began what is likely to be a drawn-out negotiating process in Brussels to find a compromise that protects the EU’s security while not–in the words of French President Jacques Chirac–”humiliating” Russia.
Visa worries are felt acutely these days in Kaliningrad. The EU policy would have ”very grave consequences economically,” said Alexander S. Karetsky, a lifelong resident and now spokesman for the regional governor, Vladimir Yegorev, who happens to be the ex-commander of the Russian Baltic Fleet.
To an American visitor, Karetsky asked, ”What if to travel from the main part of the United States to Alaska, you needed a visa from Canada? Wouldn’t that be ridiculous?”
Of course, even under the EU’s plan, people would still be able to travel freely to Russia by plane or ferry. But most people now go by car or bus. About two-thirds of Kaliningraders don’t even have passports, and to impose even a modest visa fee would be burdensome for people often earning less than $100 a month.
Even though the visa question is a difficult one, most people believe that Russia and the EU will eventually find a way to finesse the issue. For residents, it is vital, not so much because they need to travel back to Russia, but because their livelihood is linked to their Baltic Sea neighbors.
In other words, Kaliningrad is reverting to form.
Founded by crusading Teutonic knights who subdued (and virtually wiped out) the indigenous pagan tribes of the area, Koenigsberg in the Middle Ages was a member of the Hanseatic League, a federation of trading towns spread along the Baltic. Its port and its commerce brought riches to the city, making it one of the jewels of northeastern Europe.
In 1945, Koenigsberg and its surrounding area in what had been East Prussia was formally recognized by Allied leaders at Potsdam as belonging to the Soviet Union. The victorious Red Army was already there. Most of the German population had already fled or been killed, and the remnants would soon be roughly relocated to the Soviet occupation zone of Germany.
Nazi Germany was to be punished for its wartime aggression by losing East Prussia; Stalin decreed that Soviet citizens should move in and erase all memories of Prussia from this new Soviet territory.
Historic buildings, heavily damaged by the war, were torn down rather than restored. Streets and cities were renamed wholesale. In the countryside, collective farms supplanted baronial manors and feudal estates.
Yuri V. Kostyashof, a historian at Kaliningrad State University, says that Soviet authorities had an unofficial motto–”To erase the Prussian spirit from the land”–and that is why they were so avid to destroy anything that smacked of the city’s Germanic past.
Now he believes strongly that today’s Kaliningrad would benefit from an honest interpretation of its past and that the historical record of Koenigsberg would provide insights into today’s political discussions about the enclave’s future.
"Koenigsberg flourished only at times when it had good relations with its neighboring countries,” he said. ”The openness of the Kaliningrad region to the outer world is the main guarantor of its prosperity. That is what history teaches."
#8
Маша
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Отправлено 05 Август 2008 - 19:21
samurai (5.8.2008, 20:03) писал:
Из всех СМИ больше всего правды в "Новостях спорта" и ...........www.klopse.ru
Вот уж это точно
Читали на клопсах про талантливого человека Евгения Кузнецова? Я даже не предполагала, что такие есть. 
#9
Рустам Васильев
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Отправлено 05 Август 2008 - 21:53
А вот что пишет некий Dr. Darius Furmonavičius
http://www.mazoji-li...php?article=266
European enlargement: the problem of Klein Litauen is still not resolved
Ага, огородное растение через коромысло ему, а не Klein Litauen. 
http://www.mazoji-li...php?article=266
European enlargement: the problem of Klein Litauen is still not resolved
Ага, огородное растение через коромысло ему, а не Klein Litauen.
#10
Рустам Васильев
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Отправлено 23 Август 2008 - 19:49
http://ralitsa.tigbl...langcookie=true
One of Russia's threats was to get nuclear arms in its Baltic fleet and militarize the Russian exclave of Kaliningrad.
It happens that the Kaliningraders already have their eyes on the EU for quite some time. Since the EU accession of Lithuania and Poland (among others), Kaliningrad became isolated from the rest of Russia and there's been talks ever since about creating a corridor to link Kaliningrad to the Russian mainland.
The only thing that could cause Russia to re-evaluate its position not only on Georgia but on the whole former Soviet sphere and Syria and Iran, is the threat of a Kaliningrad blockade.
The isolation of Kaliningrad from the Russian mainland alone would give more weight to the pro-independence movement there and Moscow is well aware that any secession action within its borders at a time they are backing secession in other countries, could well mean the premature break up of the Russian Federation.
And this becomes even more credible if it begins in a region like Kaliningrad. A region where more people have visited Berlin than they have visited Moscow. Where the majority of the population is composed of ethnic Russians as well and where the younger generations see themselves more as being Europeans than as being Russians. And with a self sustainable local economy that could provide for a smooth transition towards independence.
So you can think of Kaliningrad as Russia's crown jewels. Put some pressure on Kaliningrad and the Russian bear will be tamed.
One of Russia's threats was to get nuclear arms in its Baltic fleet and militarize the Russian exclave of Kaliningrad.
It happens that the Kaliningraders already have their eyes on the EU for quite some time. Since the EU accession of Lithuania and Poland (among others), Kaliningrad became isolated from the rest of Russia and there's been talks ever since about creating a corridor to link Kaliningrad to the Russian mainland.
The only thing that could cause Russia to re-evaluate its position not only on Georgia but on the whole former Soviet sphere and Syria and Iran, is the threat of a Kaliningrad blockade.
The isolation of Kaliningrad from the Russian mainland alone would give more weight to the pro-independence movement there and Moscow is well aware that any secession action within its borders at a time they are backing secession in other countries, could well mean the premature break up of the Russian Federation.
And this becomes even more credible if it begins in a region like Kaliningrad. A region where more people have visited Berlin than they have visited Moscow. Where the majority of the population is composed of ethnic Russians as well and where the younger generations see themselves more as being Europeans than as being Russians. And with a self sustainable local economy that could provide for a smooth transition towards independence.
So you can think of Kaliningrad as Russia's crown jewels. Put some pressure on Kaliningrad and the Russian bear will be tamed.
#12
Рустам Васильев
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Отправлено 23 Август 2008 - 21:10
ЛьвовичЪ (23.8.2008, 22:08) писал:
Рустам, а по-русски слабо?
ЛьвовичЪ, замучаюсь переводить.
#13 Гость_Molotok_*
Отправлено 23 Август 2008 - 21:31
Рустам Васильев (23.8.2008, 22:10) писал:
ЛьвовичЪ, замучаюсь переводить.
А нам тем более влом. Уважать надо форумчан!
#14
Рустам Васильев
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Отправлено 23 Август 2008 - 21:41
Molotok (23.8.2008, 21:31) писал:
А нам тем более влом. Уважать надо форумчан!
Хм, Английский язык является неуважением? Интересно на каком языке в мире общаются лётчики, моряки и тд . Наверное на Русском.
Есть программулины по переводу, feel free to use it.
#15
Маша
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Отправлено 23 Август 2008 - 22:56
Рустам Васильев (23.8.2008, 22:41) писал:
Хм, Английский язык является неуважением? Интересно на каком языке в мире общаются лётчики, моряки и тд . Наверное на Русском.
Есть программулины по переводу, feel free to use it.
Есть программулины по переводу, feel free to use it.
Лётчики общаются не на форуме клопс.
#16
Рустам Васильев
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Отправлено 24 Август 2008 - 00:40
Маша (23.8.2008, 23:56) писал:
Лётчики общаются не на форуме клопс.
Что за дискриминация к летчикам, Маша?
И если вам не нравятся иностранные языки, вычёркивайте на мониторе маркером все не русские символы. На верху написано klops.ru зачёркивайте, в адресной строке какие то непонятные символы, если маркером некрасиво получается попробуйте корректором замазать. Также вычеркните все индийско-арабские палочки всякие. Даёшь чистоту русских форумов!
Почему "Molotok" не по русски написано? Что за неуважение к форумчанам!
#17
ЛьвовичЪ
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Отправлено 24 Август 2008 - 09:48
Название темы: Free Kenigsberg!-мнения на Английском.
Я буду проходить мимо этой темы, т.к. заведена для англоговорящих форумчан. Кто по аглицки не спикает, может проваливать в следующую тему
Вот заведу себе тему на китайском или идише, пусть Рустам помучается. 
Я буду проходить мимо этой темы, т.к. заведена для англоговорящих форумчан. Кто по аглицки не спикает, может проваливать в следующую тему
Вот заведу себе тему на китайском или идише, пусть Рустам помучается.
хачу, што бы фсе ... 
#18
Рустам Васильев
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Отправлено 24 Август 2008 - 10:26
ЛьвовичЪ (24.8.2008, 9:48) писал:
Название темы: Free Kenigsberg!-мнения на Английском.
Я буду проходить мимо этой темы, т.к. заведена для англоговорящих форумчан. Кто по аглицки не спикает, может проваливать в следующую тему Вот заведу себе тему на китайском или идише, пусть Рустам помучается.
Я буду проходить мимо этой темы, т.к. заведена для англоговорящих форумчан. Кто по аглицки не спикает, может проваливать в следующую тему
Вот заведу себе тему на китайском или идише, пусть Рустам помучается. ЛьвовичЪ-молодец!
Вот за что тебя и уважаю. Ты многие вещи понимаешь. 
P.S. Сейчас у меня драчка-собачка на форуме Европейского Союза. Отстаиваю право на Независимость Балтийского Края перед злобным Западом:-)) Ссылку на форум потом дам, кому интересно, там даже голосование устроил. Есесна in English.
#19
ЛьвовичЪ
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Отправлено 24 Август 2008 - 18:32
Неа, не хочу напрягаться. Я тебе доверяю, будь нашим дипломатом логове друзей. Особый поклон братьям полякам за их жадность и глупость.
хачу, што бы фсе ...
#20
Рустам Васильев
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Отправлено 24 Август 2008 - 19:01
Вот ссылочка на форум логова друзей Кто с английским на ты и кому интересно. Только сегодня завёл тему на форуме Европейского Союза.
Freedom to Kaliningrad!
http://forums.ec.europa.eu/debateeurope/vi...852&start=0
Кто с английским на ты и кому интересно. Только сегодня завёл тему на форуме Европейского Союза.Freedom to Kaliningrad!
http://forums.ec.europa.eu/debateeurope/vi...852&start=0
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